What’s Wrong With Homosexuality?
A Common-sense Perspective Which is No Longer Common
September 15, 2014
An opening caveat: Although some reading this will not agree with it, being a homosexual (or being anything else for that matter) should not stop anyone from coming to God. For God accepts all who come to God as they are, as long as you come to God as God is, not as you would have God be. For, God must define us. We don’t define God. And if you truly come to God, God will show you how much He loves you, a love that is immeasurable, perfect and permanent. And God will begin to transform you into what He wants you to be. And what God wants for you is truly what is best for you. You will begin to see everything in your life in a new light. And this will be the beginning of the changes that God has in store for you.
- It’s wrong to assume that all those who believe and affirm that homosexuality is wrong are bigots or “homophobes”.
Indeed, there are certainly cruel people who will hate those who are caught up in homosexuality, just as there are other types of bigots. But Christians who sincerely believe that homosexuality is sinful and who seek to appeal, as fellow sinners, to people caught up in this behavior to forsake their sin are actually trying to do the loving thing for such people, based on what we are convinced is true. You may disagree with our beliefs, but it is completely unfair for you to simply ignore them and accuse us of sinister ulterior motives.
From our point-of-view, warning people caught up in homosexuality of the error of their ways is spiritually equivalent to warning someone who is speeding down a road toward a bridge which is out that they need to stop and turn around. Certainly some motorists receiving such a warning might be skeptical or, even, annoyed by it at the time. But the one warning them is obviously trying to do a good thing. Indeed, one who would fail to make such a warning would actually be guilty of negligent disregard for others. So, when Christians like me speak out against homosexuality (or transgender desires), we are acting out of a desire to help others avoid harm or destruction. That is love, not hate. And this would be the case even if we were wrong.
Furthermore, since we see the consequences of homosexuality to be so dire, we are willing to be so bold as to go against the trend of our culture to try to persuade others to turn back from this path. This does not come from fear. Indeed, it is actually quite bold and courageous to do this today. Again, this would still be the case even if we were wrong in our beliefs. Courage is still courage even if it is for something which proves to be wrong. We are asking that you would be willing to consider why we believe this. And it’s not that we single out homosexuality. We seek to warn all who refuse to acknowledge and repent from their sins (no matter what these sins are) in the same way, as people who have already done this and continue to do so.
So, to label us “homophobes” is a misnomer. Also, the common charge that anyone who is opposed to homosexuality is a self-loathing, “closet homosexual” is clearly false. This is because, if this were true, then the majority of all people throughout history have been closet homosexuals! For, the vast majority of humanity both in the past and the present has identified as heterosexual and considered homosexuality to be abnormal, at best, and, usually, as defective (including the majority of the world’s two biggest religions: Christianity and Islam).
- Sexual behavior is something which must be learned by all people. It can either be learned correctly, according to the design of the human body, or not. And, even if one develops a defective tendency/orientation, this can be unlearned and re-oriented in the proper direction, which is faithful, monogamous heterosexuality.
First, anyone who is willing to look objectively at their own past can recognize that they had to learn how to perform sexually, one way or another. Though things which initially arouse a person are not chosen, whether or not we continue to seek arousal and gratification through these things IS a matter of choice. Accordingly, we can either choose to resist deviant impulses and pursue normal human sexuality, which is monogamous heterosexuality, or we can choose to reinforce deviant arousal patterns (tendencies) through repetition, thus making them preferences or orientations. This is clearly seen with sexual addictions to pornography or various types of “adventurous” sexual behavior with others, such as heterosexual promiscuity and the many “exotic” forms of sexual gratification. Addiction is an appropriate label for sexual deviance, since all forms of sexual deviance resemble classic addictions in tending to drive one to pursue more and more extreme behavior in order to get the desired pay-off and also in their tendency to become increasingly obsessive/compulsive behavior patterns.
Second, sexual tendencies/orientations can be changed. Most men and many women have actually experienced this already in learning how to go from masturbation as their means of sexual gratification to sexual relations with others. For, it is clearly the case that masturbation and sex with others are completely different sexual behaviors. Anyone who has made this transition knows that one has to learn how to perform sexually with another (whether of the same or opposite sex). Furthermore, many people who were previously caught up in homosexual tendencies and orientations have successfully overcome them and become faithful married heterosexuals. Those who say that this can’t happen are simply lying. The fact that most people who do this sometimes experience desires to go back to their previous pattern does not mean that their previous pattern was “natural” for them. Rather, these desires are really no different than any other type of sexual temptation, which most married people are prone to experience in one way or another. It also shows a false bias to assume that people who go from heterosexuality to homosexuality are doing what is natural for them, but not people who go from homosexual behavior to heterosexual. Actually, all the evidence shows that to do the latter is to go from what is un-natural to what is natural.
Third, regardless of how appealing or enjoyable a sexual activity is, this doesn’t make it right or healthy. After all, stealing is appealing to thieves. Most can easily understand this with pedophiles, rapists, and those who take advantage of adult prostitutes or engage in other types of demonstrably dangerous sexual behavior (such as suffocation to achieve climax or serial adultery). And, it is important to note that, in the latter cases, this behavior, like adult homosexual relations, is consensual.
Fourth, to say that having homosexual impulses shows that one is actually a homosexual by nature is simply absurd. Most people who consider themselves homosexual (including virtually all women) are able to have relations with people of the opposite sex. They just prefer same-sex relations. This points to heterosexuality being natural, along with further evidence that will be given under the next point. Thus, people who pursue homosexuality or other types of deviant sexuality simply choose (incorrectly) to forsake normal development in favor of what they have become comfortable doing. This is exactly what Romans 1:26-27 says.
It’s also worth considering that pedophilia, though it is a distinct and far more pernicious form of sexual perversion than homosexuality, is more commonly man-on-boy than any other possibility. This is in spite of the fact that, by all accounts, there have always been far more male heterosexuals (males who are physically attracted to females rather than males) in every culture than male homosexuals. It should be obvious that any culture or sub-culture in which this is not the case would simply cease to exist in a short period of time due to lack of reproduction. Thus, there is clearly a stronger connection of pedophilia to homosexuality. This is one of many dirty secrets about homosexuality which today’s “politically-correct” culture seeks to bury. This is also the case with the dramatically higher rates of AIDS and other sexually-transmitted diseases among male homosexuals, as well as higher rates of drug abuse, domestic violence, depression and suicide (the last of which I will address below).
- Homosexuality is against Nature, as a rejection of normal reproduction.
First, the most basic facts of anatomy and reproduction prove that homosexuality is a perversion of sexual impulse and misuse of the human body. Second, the notion that it is common in Nature is absurd. Animals which forsake normal mating fail to perpetuate their line and support the survival of their species. That different species can be observed to engage in same-sex sexual play prior to maturity or to cohabitate as same-sex pairs or groups (which is simply herding or flocking behavior) is not at all the same as when human-beings forsake normal mating in favor of long-term same-sex sexual relationships. Only humans do the latter. Third, there is no evidence whatsoever that homosexuality is genetic. Fourth, even if it could be found that there is a genetic component, the fact that homosexuality is a trait which tends to prevent normal reproduction would mean that it is a genetic defect!
- Homosexuality or desires to change one’s born sexual identity is against God’s will for humanity, as seen in the frustrations, guilt and unhappiness which it commonly produces; which, in turn, leads to significantly higher levels of alienation, isolation, depression, drug abuse, and suicide. Furthermore, men caught up in homosexuality also incur significantly higher rates of sexually-transmitted and other types of diseases.
The tragic epidemic of teen suicides among people with homosexual tendencies (especially young people) is not due to those who believe homosexuality is wrong. The fact is that the suicide rate among those involved in homosexuality or seeking to change their sex (or gender) has actually increased dramatically in recent years, even though there is far more cultural support for this today than in the past and anti-LGBTQ expression is increasingly frowned upon and, even, punished. But this points to the real reason why many young people with homosexual tendencies or orientations are dying: because they are being encouraged by the culture to ignore their consciences, which tell them that pursuing such things is wrong. It is true that many long-practicing homosexuals have seared their consciences by training themselves to ignore what their consciences tell them (though we say that this will eventually fail). But many others are unable to do this, so their guilt and shame only increase. And, if they continue to do what they know is wrong, this will lead to an increasing inner conflict, which, in turn, naturally leads to alienation, isolation, depression, despair and even suicide.
Therefore, it is a gross distortion to blame depression and suicides among people who identify as LGBTQ on those who believe and affirm that these paths are wrong. It is also important to realize that, while people can be pushed to consider suicide for various reasons, it is actually a fallacy that one can be forced by others to take one’s own life. Suicide is the most individual choice anyone can make. For example, even if one literally put a loaded gun to the head of another and demanded that the other person pull the trigger this would still be the choice of the person pulling the trigger. Furthermore, if we really want to reduce suicides, we need to go back to the old way of thinking: that suicide is wrong, a profoundly selfish and weak act, which does great and undeserved harm to others. And to believe that it ends one’s existence is dubious at best, based on the false assumption that we are only physical beings.
- The Good News in all of this is that there is a Way to be delivered from a guilty conscience due to homosexuality (without suppressing it, only to have the guilt return eventually), as well as from this terribly destructive life choice, or, for that matter, from any other sinful lifestyle. God will do this for all who:
Admit to God that “I am a sinner in need of salvation.”
Believe that God sent His Eternal Son, Jesus Christ, in order to save us from our sins, and that He sent His Holy Spirit to dwell in us and make us holy.
Commit to Christ as our Savior and Lord.
It’s as simple as this “A-B-C”. Homosexuality and other sinful inclinations and patterns can be overcome. There are many living today who have done so. Again, those who deny this are simply lying. While I know that many today reading this will hate this point-of-view (even if your hatred hasn’t kept you from getting this far), what you can’t do is refute it.
You’ll need to provide solid scientific evidence for this claim, which currently goes againsty all scientific evidence. You don’t need to inclide “sin” among the things to prove of course: it’s a purely religious – and therefore subjective – concept.
Please produce evidence for this as well. Even Exodus International has admitted its failure in this regard, so you may find it a bit of an uphill job.
You misunderstand the burden of proof. It is for you to provide evidence for your claims, not for others to refute them. No evidence? Then the claims can be summarily dismissed.
I want to thank you, first of all for taking the time to engage what I have written. I always appreciate those who are willing to engage in a reasonable way those who hold contrary views. This all too rare today, especially with this emotionally-charged issue. Having done so, I pray and hope that you will be willing to read my response with a fair and open mind.
First, Science simply hasn’t proven that homosexuality is genetic nor that it isn’t changeable. And for anyone to say that it is normal is a denial of simple facts of anatomy and reproduction, along with the fact that it can’t be considered normal statistically. People claim these things all the time these days, not because there is evidence for this, but because they want them to be true. The desire for people to see things as they want them to be in this area is so strong that the testimony of countless people that they have overcome homosexuality is commonly dismissed as self-delusion and denial, despite abundant evidence to the contrary.
But the real denial and delusion is on the side of those who reject what every major religious tradition and the vast of majority of humanity throughout history have been convinced of – that homosexuality is abnormal and harmful, but changeable. Please answer this: Why is it commonly assumed today that people who have any homosexual experience or inclinations must be natural homosexuals, who should follow these inclinations rather than heterosexual ones; but, on the other hand, people who practice homosexuality but who also have heterosexual experience (which is quite common) are almost never considered to be natural heterosexuals? Is this not simply an arbitrary, pro-homosexual bias?
Depending on how old you are, you may lack a historical perspective on this. The consensus of our culture has gone to an extreme position on this issue in particular just within the past 30 years or so. People who aren’t aware of this are likely to consider today’s views as normal, but they aren’t.
There are ex-homosexuals in thousands of Bible-believing churches. I have met or heard testimonies of many of them. Furthermore, it is commonly recognized (and joked about) in our culture that a lot of women try out homosexuality in college before finding a husband and becoming normal (Yes, normal!) sexually. And many men are able to have relations with women but simply prefer men. These are indisputable facts on which there is widespread agreement on both sides.
As for Exodus International, I am pretty well aware of what happened and know that this was an organizational failure due to leadership issues, and, especially, an overly-simplistic understanding of how homosexuality is overcome by many involved in the ministry. Most of the people involved in this ministry are still following the path they were on but are simply doing so without the support of this ministry. Though I stress that homosexuality can be overcome, I am also aware that it is far from easy and usually involves a life-long commitment to resist sinful urges and pursue proper ones. Actually, this is the norm for all sorts of sinful tendencies (including my own). I see this as the true meaning of Christ’s call to take up our crosses and follow Him. In other words, in this regard, homosexuality is no different than any other sin issue.
This is actually very good news for those involved with homosexuality (though most churches don’t understand this nearly as well as they should). However, the Bible also says that sexual sins are worse than other sins because they are sins against one’s own body. They are also harder to overcome than other life-controlling sins (like substance abuse) because, with sexuality, we cannot avoid carrying the abused object around with us everyday. Unfortunately, many Christians have been misled to expect that God will deliver them instantly and completely from homosexuality (or other sinful tendencies). This was part of the problem with Exodus. I have heard of people who have suddenly had all homosexual desires disappear and never come back. But this is rare. The norm is for people to continue to deal with desires for many years and, in some cases, for the rest of their lives. But the good news is that whether or not one indulges desires is always a matter of choice and God immeasurably blesses those who commit themselves to fighting sinful desires and pursuing righteous ones and forgives us whenever we fall into sin, as long as we confess our sins and renew our commitment to holiness. I pray that this will be helpful to you.
“First, Science simply hasn’t proven that homosexuality is genetic nor that it isn’t changeable.”
Wrong on both counts. There is certainly evidence for a genetic component and there is no evidence that sexuality can be modified.
The rest of your problem is purely personal.
Sorry, but you are living in fantasyland, in denial of what should be completely obvious. Eventually, reality will catch up with you. I only hope and pray that you wake up from your delusions (along with millions of deceived today, who have been brainwashed by a anti-Christian culture). It is the epitome of irrationalism for someone to dismiss the lengthy reply which I gave you, filled with rational and fact-based arguments, as simply a “personal problem” and to make completely unsupported (and actually false) assertions as you do in your reply.
If I muted you, it’s because you proved to be an unreasonable person, who just wanted a twitter-war. Based on your comments here, that seems quite clear.
>>For readers seeing this post please be aware it is the continuation of a discussion
>>started with Christopher over in the forum discussing his article “The Rational
>>Road to becoming a Christian” – starting around posts 89. I recommend reading
>>this exchange of ideas if the following is to make sense.
A very fundamental problem with Christianity was exposed by Christopher in our other discussion and while it remains unresolved at the time of writing this post, I noticed severe implications for the Christian position on homosexuality – hence why I thought the discussion should continue in this forum.
One of the last concepts Christopher introduced in that other discussion was the concept of “Maintenance”. This was done in the context of me asking how I was to integrate this term he had just introduced into the ideas he had previously expounded on Order and Disorder (the Christian notion of Randomness) and Design or Lack-of-Design of Creation (God’s work), Christopher admitted he had introduced the term in relation to something else: “I did not use maintenance with respect to what God does.”
It would be a distraction to stop and accuse Christopher of using conflation as a tactic to confound and sabotage the discussion (which wasn’t going his way) so I will let readers make up their own minds about this.
The important thing to note is that “Maintenance’ does have a relevance to God’s Design of Creation:
According to many Christians, Homosexuality is wrong and they refer to verses in Romans 1 (amongst others) to justify their position. I have read these verses and many commentaries from religious scholars on these verses and it is clear that the phenomenon of homosexuality is not something God wants to see in the world. It was Sam Allberry, a church pastor in Maidenhead, UK who, in his article “What does the Bible say about homosexuality?” (livingout.org) said it best:
“..Homosexual desire is not what God originally intended.”
Readers will immediately recognise that Sam Allberry’s comment affirms Christopher’s notion that parts of Creations had a distinct “Lack-of-Design” – lack of design is the obvious explanation why a Design unfolds in unintended ways and hence would require “Maintenance”.
In the previous conversation with Christopher I showed how this “Lack-of-Design” has implications for Christianity, only resolvable by invoking an alternative agent (to God) for Design or adopting the scientific notion of Randomness.
Christopher has yet to respond to this challenge but regardless, the implications for the Christian position on Homosexuality, or any other issue, are clear:
Regardless of whether there is an alternative agent (to God) for Design or Randomness (in a scientific sense) is at play, the exclusive authority over Creation of God has vanished. This is devastating for Christianity because without exclusive authority over Creation it proves that the CHRISTIAN GOD DOES NOT EXIST.
And this fact establishes that the Bible is a purely HUMAN ARTIFACT and consequently has ABSOLUTELY NO AUTHORITY over mankind.
The Moral foundations of Christianity and Christian notions of Sin clearly do not have their origins with a deity, but with ordinary men. They are all mere opinions, formulated a long time ago in an age of ignorance, barbarianism and naïve superstitions. And because they were masqueraded as words from a god they were cast as immutable dogma incapable of evolving with mankind as our knowledge, enlightenment and wisdom grew making us cognizant of amazing new truths in domains such as science, medicine, philosophy, human rights and mathematics to name a few.
And of course, the Bible’s explanation of Creation, the accounts of global floods & parting seas, of resurrections and a world in existence for less than 10,000 years, are all just fictional nonsense, as Science has been telling us all along.
So what are we left with?
Well, it’s Naturalism and its workhorse, Science.
This is the correct world view and it is founded on objectively verifiable evidence from the things we can see (or come to perceive) rather than “hidden” supernatural nonsense. This world view is constantly being refined and expanded in its breadth of knowledge and understanding. It can account for homosexuality in an evolutionary context (there is a great short video by Richard Dawkins on this topic). This world view accepts homosexuality as the natural thing that it is and compels our civilization to do the appropriate thing of also accepting homosexuality for what it is – a natural part of reality.
I am not sure if there is much more that needs to be said.
I initially thought that you were posting here in an honest effort to better understand the Christian position. But it has become clear that you just want to play word-games in order to avoid dealing with the real issues.
And, frankly, I don’t give a shit what Richard Dawkins thinks! He’s amazingly ignorant of philosophy, history and Christianity and also an amazingly arrogant jerk. Not a good combo!
That so many today believe that homosexuality is natural only shows the amazing blinding power of a false worldview. No culture in history until now has believed this because it is so obviously BS, as the most basic awareness of Biology makes clear. (Plus, not only Christianity, but every other traditional religion has also said the same.)
I probably would have gone along with today’s pro-LGBTQ Mass Insanity, too (along with the rest of the errors of Progressive Humanists), had God not opened my mind 35 years ago. I can only pray that He will do so for you and millions of others. Only this will enable you to see what you are missing. But you are culpable insofar as you resist Him.
I came to your website to understand your Religion and test the truth of your claims.
I took great care in listening to what you had to say. I sought confirmation, which you gave, of my understanding and the clear meaning I gave to the terms you introduced.
From there I applied simple logic to investigate the implications and consequences of your world view which ended up proving the Christian God does not exist.
If I did not come with an honest intention of understanding your position I would have constructed a flawed argument which you could easily have demolished.
But instead of refuting my argument you cower behind a defense of “word play”.
I think it’s time you are man-enough to either give a precise refutation to my argument (and then this discussion can progress in a meaningful way)
Simply face the facts: it’s Check Mate!
I have replied to this in the Comments section of the “The Rational Road” post.
Sorry, but you’re the real prejudiced one. You prove it by your response. Instead of trying to point out what’s wrong with my article, you simply dismiss it and judge me as a bad person because I come to conclusions that you don’t like. The truth is that you don’t point out the problems in the article because you can’t. And you can’t handle the truth!